The Infamous Endorsement Debate Strikes Again!

[CLWarunki]

This was taken from another thread, and I thought I'd shed some light on it here since it's a seperate topic...

Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
BTW, do you really expect to get a Sabian endorsement? Good luck with that, seriously. Let us know if it works out. I tried years ago, and they would only consider it if you were regularly recording on released product AND touring substantially with high profile artists.

I used to play with some big names in Canada back in the day, and Sabian never threw me a bone. It didn't really matter though, as they're not that expensive, and I still love their stuff. The thing about an endorsement deal is the support; That's what I wanted. I may try them again later this year when my latest stuff gets released. It's worth a shot.

I don't need anything for free, but I do hate having to go through retail outlets for my needs. They're all so useless.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here is what I have to say about my claim regarding the Sabian Endorsement...

You are right, it is not easy, but I figure that I have a bit of an edge by my potential, my dedication, who I know and my ties with Sabian throughout the years. No, I am not touring the world at the moment and no my band does not have a #1 video on MTV, but there are a lot of "yes" answers as well.

I have done YEARS of research on endorsements and I know how they work. No, I don't expect to get anything for free... I expect a mutual relationship with a drum company that I believe in. I can offer exposure, and I am an "up and coming drummer" with an "up and coming band". Anything can happen, and things are happening...

I didn't want to mention this until it was 100% official, which it seems now that it is: I just got an endorsement with a prestigeous custom drum company here in Canada named EPEK drums. Some of you may have seen the excellent review in the March 2005 Modern Drummer - Ed Peck is practically the Ron Dunnett of drum kits, if you know what I mean. The quality of these drums is simply astounding, and the array of options seems endless. You should take a look at the gallery, pretty remarkable instruments...
www.epekpercussion.com

A couple months ago, I was offered an endorsement from a fairly new cymbal company called SALUDA. I have never played their cymbals before, and was skeptical. Rather than blindly accepting the proposal, I kindly thanked them for the offer and passed on it.

EPEK was my first ever attempt at an endorsement with a drum company. Saluda approached me. In all these years of playing Sabian I have never approached them because I am waiting for the right moment which i feel is near.

I'm sorry to hear that Sabian didn't support you, did you find someone else to back you up? Who were you playing with in Canada? How did you present yourself to them? Presentation is very important... among many other things. Timing as well. And let's face it, this is the music industry - "it's all about who you know". Think about how many times you got a gig through another musician or drummer. Think about all the famous stories of big top dollar gigs based on "who the drummer knew" - or "who knew the drummer".

I know the great people at Sabian, now I just need to remind them about me!

I know it's not a done deal, but I think my chances are good. I'll keep you posted...

Cheers,
Chris

P.S. My website is a year out-of-date and will soon be reworked and simplified with new video clips (to replace the embarassing ones up now!), new mp3's and most of all NEW DRUMS [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Groovemeister]

It's scary you know...

I don't know what the state of affairs is over in the US or Europe, but it seems that the only things kids in the UK want to achieve 'musically' is an endorsement. It's perhaps the worst thing about the UK drum industry at the moment, that everybody is clambering for profile.

I have been playing for years and have never ever broken a cymbal in my life. I get through heads and sticks so it's nice to have support there, but even then only on a big tour - and even then you can buy your own through the tours 'consumables' budget.

They are helpful, but I think there is far too much attention paid to the whole endorsement situation...

MP

[troutbrooke]

Originally posted by CLWarunki:
Who were you playing with in Canada? How did you present yourself to them? Presentation is very important... among many other things. Timing as well. And let's face it, this is the music industry - "it's all about who you know".

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not comfortable revealing any personal info on here, but I toured with SEVERAL big name acts back then, and to tell you the truth, the endorsement wasn't really that big a deal for me, as I already had everything I needed. At the time I thought I would look into it because several of my close friends had endorsements with them (and still do) and it would have given me the chance to experiment more with cymbals. Plus, a recording I played on was about to be released, and I was going to mention Sabian on it, so I figured, why not ask them? They told me that I should keep in touch and to keep them up to date on my activities. It didn't mean that much to me.

At the time, I was only just STARTING to record RELEASED product. Then a year later I recorded with an act on A&M, but I quit the band before the tour and I never contacted Sabian again. I worked with two more Canadian heavyweights, and then shortly after that, moved here. I still have many friends in Canada and I'm pretty tight with most of the best (IMO) drummers in Toronto,

I recently found out that Sabian will create custom pies for ANYONE, so, I don't really care about the endorsement. Plus I really like my current setup. A few recordings I have done in the last year may come out soon, as well as one that I'm releasing on my own, so I may take a stab at contacting them again....

In your case though, I think you may be jumping the gun... To each his own though, and I do hope you find what you're looking for.

From Yamaha's site re: endorsements
We receive many applications for endorsements everyday, and we find that in most cases the applicants do not really understand why a drum company endorses an artist. Before you complete the endorsement application, we would like to explain why Yamaha Drums signs an artist to our roster. We think this may help you begin to understand the philosophy behind Yamaha Drums. After all, if you are seeking an endorsement with us, you should know what we are all about.

By its basic definition, when an artist "endorses" a product, that artist fully commits and swears by that particular product. In other words, that particular product is the best and only product that the artist will use.

From a business stand point, a manufacturer endorses an artist because that artist is popular enough to influence many drum consumers. Basically, a manufacturer signs an artist, so that the buying public will be influenced to buy more of their drums. In such a deal, both parties benefit:


The artist receives professional drum equipment that he believes is the best product to represent his musical voice. In addition, he receives the support needed in all relative circumstances.
The manufacturer receives more drum sales, due to the overwhelming amount of exposure and drum fans the artist influences.
Here are some of the considerations for most endorsements:
Personality, Loyalty and Talent
Television, studio, movie and video credits
Participation in high visibility tours
Other endorsements (such as cymbals, sticks, heads, etc.)
Teaching credentials from major university or education systems
Record sales approaching "gold" status or above
Currently playing Yamaha Drums
How do you get an endorsement from Yamaha Drums? In addition to the points listed above, we look a little more at each artist. Receiving a Yamaha Drums endorsement is being accepted into our family. We take great pride in our roster and are very selective about whom we allow in.
Popularity. As noted above, an artist's popularity is essential. Will the artist influence the buying public?
Yamaha Player. Does the artist already play Yamaha? We love signing artists who truly believe in our product and have already chosen Yamaha to represent their musical voice. There is nothing more respected than to hear that an artist turned down another drum company's endorsement offer because they would rather play Yamaha Drums and wait for an opening.
Personality & Loyalty. Each and every Yamaha artist has his own personality, but we are truly a family. Loyalty to and love of the Yamaha name is crucial; this is the foundation on which our family roster is built.
Talent. We uphold the quality of the many talented artists we have on our roster. We stand behind our roster and their musical abilities. We have more legends and longevity on our roster because of that.

Application Process
If you have tried or currently play Yamaha instruments and know that they are your first choice of musical expression, you may consider applying for a Yamaha artist designation. It is necessary for a person to have an established career in the music industry if he or she wishes to be considered as a Yamaha artist.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 07, 2005 09:39 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>

[CLWarunki]

Originally posted by Groovemeister:
It's scary you know...

I don't know what the state of affairs is over in the US or Europe, but it seems that the only things kids in the UK want to achieve 'musically' is an endorsement. It's perhaps the worst thing about the UK drum industry at the moment, that everybody is clambering for profile.

I have been playing for years and have never ever broken a cymbal in my life. I get through heads and sticks so it's nice to have support there, but even then only on a big tour - and even then you can buy your own through the tours 'consumables' budget.

They are helpful, but I think there is far too much attention paid to the whole endorsement situation...

MP

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, it's like Yamaha states above: It's an acceptance into a family. It's not my goal in life to be endorsed by 10 different companies, but it is one of my goals to be accepted into the Sabian family... from what drumming sort of person told me above, it might not be as simple as I thought... but I'm willing to find out.

[troutbrooke]

Originally posted by CLWarunki:
it might not be as simple as I thought... but I'm willing to find out.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You never know man. You should definitely keep in touch with them though.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 07, 2005 10:57 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>

[CLWarunki]

And from the sounds of it, seems like you are doing well - maybe it's time for you to give it another shot as it seems that you meet most of the requirements. Have you approached any other drum/cymbal companies though?

[troutbrooke]

Originally posted by CLWarunki:
And from the sounds of it, seems like you are doing well - maybe it's time for you to give it another shot as it seems that you meet most of the requirements. Have you approached any other drum/cymbal companies though?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, but I may put a package together and give it another shot sometime. I'm not really out there doing it at that level as much anymore though, and I don't think I could provide anything in return for it, so it's doubtful.